by RAMjetta » Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:10 am
Earlier our member "Branch" asked a question about Laser/Light combos that was about to lead us to the following convo. https://ftq80.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=723#p723 Rather than Jack his thread I decided to start the convo here. Please add your experience and/or opinions. I'm interested to know. Disclaimer: not thread jacking bu I would like to address this. It's not an argument, just a alternative opinion. Hawkeye wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:28 amI use cheap lights when I use one but. I hardly ever use one. They make a conceal care big and bulky. I did get a cheap light with a lazar for a MCK, I couldn't keep it sited in. There was to much play in the rail mount that you just couldn't site it in. I would have to say this makes the argument for spending big bucks on a light. The pistols I do use a light on are side arms, so weight and bulky size doesn't matter as much. My line of thought is having a light on shows where you are and they make a good target when the bad guy is looking for something to shoot at. I was taught back in the day to use a flash light in one hand and you pistol in the other. You can turn off light or drop it but it doesn't make you a target. The flash lights I do use have rechargeable batteries. I keep extra batteries charged and ready to go. They seem to last longer with more power. Of course if they are not right in front of you it does give a target. If they are in front of you they should be temporarily blinded or disoriented by the light. Personally I subscribe to the school of (and safety rule) "ALWAYS know what you're shooting at and beyond". In a previous live stream by the big bald guy, he made a point of saying that we live half our lives in the dark and the only way to guarantee light during an emergency is to have an EDC or WM light. I practice conceal and cover so I'm less worried about getting shot by someone seeing my light vs knowing I'm shooting who I intend to shoot. The argument of EDC in one hand vs WML is all about training. When I did work in night security a lifetime ago, 1) WML's hadn't been invented and 2) I carried a 1911 clone or 38 special without rails so i had to train with an EDC light (didnt like it much). I shoot much better with a firm 2 handed grip vs one handed with an edc in the other. With the proper grip and practice/training a WML is only on when you want it on. I tend to use light that have a down button to trigger. I can activate and deactivate without breaking my grip so light on or off is a wash. You mentioned you can drop the light if you need to but if you drop your light now youre not 100% who or what you may have to shoot at and if you move then you either have to find your light of be without it later when you may need it (just an observation). Now this is all hypothetical unless you have been in a dark firefight of which I have not been in. So if someone has please comment below and tell us about your experience if you can. Thanks for you comment Hawkeye. Hopefully this thread will yield some valuable insights.
JettaMan OUT!
by PaulusInIA » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:05 pm
PaulusInIA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:54 pmAll the full size pistols have lights. Even the shotgun for Home D has a light. Weird, on my phone that last picture shows correctly. on the pc, it shows upside down. bizarre.
-Paulus In IA
by RAMjetta » Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:38 pm
There's really no wrong way to do it. Either way you go, just make sure you train, train, train. Agreed.
JettaMan OUT!
by madams117 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:50 pm
Like a lot of others have said, I'd much rather have two hands on my gun and be able to have one free to do other things if need be, i.e. open doors, swap mags, communicate using hand signals if in the house trying to be quiet and tell the family what to do/where to go etc. My main EDC is a Gen 3 G26 with a TLR-6 on it and my full size gun is a Springfield XD with a Surefire X300U-A on it. I also always carry a dedicated flashlight for those times where you probably shouldn't pull your gun out to use as a flashlight. Most of the time, it's a Streamlight ProTac 1L-1AA, but I also use the bigger 2L at times. My 11.5 SBR has an inforce WMLx on it as will my 8in SBR once I can build it. I don't have a light on my shotgun, but I'll get one on there at some point. It all comes down to personal preference and what you're comfortable with. There's really no wrong way to do it. Either way you go, just make sure you train, train, train.
by PaulusInIA » Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:54 pm
All the full size pistols have lights. Even the shotgun for Home D has a light.
by PaulusInIA » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:51 pm
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:45 pmOne thing I have learned though life is everyone has different preferences and most important, what I like is not all ways right for everyone else. Thats right folks I am not all ways right! (don't tell my wife) I do like the cheap light setup I have on my AR-9 pistol I'm working on now. I have a grip switch on the front handle that lets me squeeze on/off or use a turn on turn off switch. BUT when it comes to conceal carry, I don't like any flashlight. Just think about how a conceal carry pistol will be used. I carry all day so, I want a small and light weight pistol easy to hide and easy to draw. If I need to use it, it will be very close shooting (10 to 20 feet) Will I have time to double hand it and aim? that's a maybe This is just me and as a said I am not all ways right but close Back when I did shoot a lot, by that I mean 100 to 300 rounds 4-5 times a week just for practice before I went to the range and shoot matches. One think I practiced was shooting with both eyes open and not looking at sites. I cared a 22lr Bersa back then. I could shoot rats running on rafters in the barn just draw and shoot no aiming. I don't think I could shoot like this if I had to mess around with a flashlight. Side note: If you want to draw and shoot try this for training, Use you hand like a gun (draw and point your finger over and over) watch where your finger is pointing every time until you get a fell for pointing. Now with an empty pistol do the same but the barrel is your finger now. Remember this is close up short range shooting. story: Neighbor comes over (hey Hawk you have to do something with those 4H roasters your kid let loose. There shitting all over my barn where they are rostering at night. So I tell him to go in the front of the barn and run them out the back where I would be with my High Standard Double 9 22lr, drawing western quick draw shot the heads of 4 out of 5 rosters. The one last roster lived, I call that story how to chuck a chicken out the truck window, buts that another store of later. Back to flash or not conceal carry- no light side arm - why not there cool AR pistols - yes indeed AR 16 inch and longer not so much Just remember on a few times I have been mistaken so do what fells right for you. You brought up a great great point, and something competitive shooting really polishes: point shooting. Both eyes open & bringing the gun to your field of vision & onto the target & breaking the shot. No less than 3 different advanced combat pistol courses i have attended have stressed this. I like a weapon mounted light because it can aid in this process.
-Paulus In IA
by PaulusInIA » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:43 pm
My personal preference is light on the weapon. I cant drop it because im trying to manage 2 diff items, & it keeps two hands on the gun for retention & better shots. The really good lights dont mess with your ability to maintain proper grip, the added weight helps w muzzle flip (a little) and lights on rails generally are boresighted due to the nature of placement so possibly help you break your shots faster because its boresighted- if the bad guy is dead center of the light…. Plus, if you have to take a contact shot in a struggle with an attacker, a light on a pistol may give you precious little bit of separation between the muzzle crown and bad guy preventing an ‘out of battery’ situation when you most need that pistol to run. Also, If something is worth investigating with a light, and your light is on the gun, you’re ready to react *now*. And if i dont have a flashlight in my support hand & if im forced to, i have a hand free of obstructions for combatives. Again, just my preferences, and some thoughts. That said, Clint Smith makes an excellent point about this: maybe the light is a good solution to fighting your way to the light switch so you dont have to fight in the dark? Food for thought & worth considering.
-Paulus In IA
by Hawkeye » Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:47 pm
RamJetta !!! You know I love everything about the CopperHead, but man that little Taurus is sweet, just the right carry size. Now-a-days I carry a Springfield 911 in a 380 with a lazar and night sights.
by RAMjetta » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:14 pm
Thanks for the input Hawk. You know damn well being wrong is a matter of opinion. What works for you is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT for you. Everyone else can kick rocks lol. I carry concealed all day and night (Uber Driver) in a seated position. I mostly carry my Taurus G2c (the bane of most gun snobs) with an Armalaser TR23 laser mounted to the rail (no light but I'm contemplating the Baldr S if I can get a custom holster made).
It is extremely comfortable and easy to draw (I practice a lot). Since I got a new G19 holster that accommodates the Olight PL Mini Valkyrie I carried that for 2 weeks before my surgery.
The pic below seen with the S.I. Mass Comp Driver attached but I didn't carry with that installed
I can't say that it was any less comfortable. In fact, HCM Holsters did a great job and I barely felt it on my hip. Virtually no printing as well. I find that comfort comes down to the holster being used also. I know folks with a box of uncomfortable options that didn't work out. But like you said, it's about preference and everyone's preference is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT for them (loving this thread).
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:45 pm
One thing I have learned though life is everyone has different preferences and most important, what I like is not all ways right for everyone else. Thats right folks I am not all ways right! (don't tell my wife) I do like the cheap light setup I have on my AR-9 pistol I'm working on now. I have a grip switch on the front handle that lets me squeeze on/off or use a turn on turn off switch. BUT when it comes to conceal carry, I don't like any flashlight. Just think about how a conceal carry pistol will be used. I carry all day so, I want a small and light weight pistol easy to hide and easy to draw. If I need to use it, it will be very close shooting (10 to 20 feet) Will I have time to double hand it and aim? that's a maybe This is just me and as a said I am not all ways right but close Back when I did shoot a lot, by that I mean 100 to 300 rounds 4-5 times a week just for practice before I went to the range and shoot matches. One think I practiced was shooting with both eyes open and not looking at sites. I cared a 22lr Bersa back then. I could shoot rats running on rafters in the barn just draw and shoot no aiming. I don't think I could shoot like this if I had to mess around with a flashlight. Side note: If you want to draw and shoot try this for training, Use you hand like a gun (draw and point your finger over and over) watch where your finger is pointing every time until you get a fell for pointing. Now with an empty pistol do the same but the barrel is your finger now. Remember this is close up short range shooting. story: Neighbor comes over (hey Hawk you have to do something with those 4H roasters your kid let loose. There shitting all over my barn where they are rostering at night. So I tell him to go in the front of the barn and run them out the back where I would be with my High Standard Double 9 22lr, drawing western quick draw shot the heads of 4 out of 5 rosters. The one last roster lived, I call that story how to chuck a chicken out the truck window, buts that another store of later. Back to flash or not conceal carry- no light side arm - why not there cool AR pistols - yes indeed AR 16 inch and longer not so much Just remember on a few times I have been mistaken so do what fells right for you.
by RAMjetta » Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:01 pm
For an in home situation myself I have techno magic at my disposal - all lights are on voice control with specific commands. "Intruder Alert" kicks everything on full bright and starts playing an alarm sound because yes I'm a geek . Love that. Now I gotta replace all my damn bulbs. Ugh! Thx Nosce. Great input. Thank you sir.
JettaMan OUT!
by Branch » Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:55 pm Wow, I never expected my question to raise another thread, but it’s a good one with lots of good info to digest! Thanks Ram for posting, and everyone else for the input!
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by NosceVeritas » Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:38 pm
Personally I would prefer to have two hands on my firearm for greater control. Especially if your light has an easily reachable on/off switch (remote or just reachable, either way). That said, EDC for me is a mostly daytime venture so a WML isn't strictly necessary for my use case. It would also necessitate another holster purchase. No complaints there, I know where to go *cough HCM Holsters cough*, but that's more money out of pocket in addition to the light itself and I already have a decent mag lite . It will happen, someday. 100% agree with knowing your target (as well as what's in front of/behind it). That's where a WML in an unknown location at night really shines (pardon the pun - or don't ). For an in home situation myself I have techno magic at my disposal - all lights are on voice control with specific commands. "Intruder Alert" kicks everything on full bright and starts playing an alarm sound because yes I'm a geek . In my own roundabout way I guess I'm saying: Load yourself out for the most common occurrence(s) you can envision and be willing to adapt as needed. I can always duct tape my maglite to my sidearm, lol ...
by WE4PONXYZ » Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:36 am
As someone who studied/practiced Martial Arts for a long time. Im gonna say WML as I would prefer to have two hands on my firearm for greater control. Also the ability in case I need it to defend myself in a CQB situation. Open a door/Close a door, change mags, grab a knife, flip the bird etc. I do feel it’s important to also carry a small flashlight on your person as well though. We spend soo much of our life in the dark as previously stated that either or should be a must. I love the momentary on feature to wml’s that most edc flashlights don’t have (hold button and release) for scanning for threats as to not give away position.