by Hawkeye » Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:05 pm
When you look for info on triggers it is all in different places with mostly OME parts. OME triggers with a little tweaking are easy to do and work great, I guess that's why a lot use them but I'm for the camp that all ways ask why and why not. Why can't I take an aftermarket trigger part and tweak them to get the same trigger as a tweaked out OME trigger. If I can't why, are the aftermarket trigger parts so bad they can't be tweaked? I guess it's the problem solver gen I have (I have to know why something doesn't work) I'm working on PF9ss triggers first. So far, I have some OME triggers that have not been polished, they work fine with a 6-61/2 lbs pull. I have some Serpico shoes with Orange CO trigger bars (that look like polished OME bars (part no.33363) I'm using a ghost connector with a trigger housing (part no.33213-1) with the 1/8th setscrew to adjust travel.
I go from a stock OME trigger without any polishing at 6-61/2 pull to the Serpico flat trigger, all edges polished round, polished shark fin and crucifix and the best I can get is 5 lbs pull.
I'm trying to teach myself about triggers and how to get them down to at least a 4 lbs pull.
Once I figure this out, then I'll work on travel and set.
I think the most important inner workings of P-80 are the triggers, this is what make that one-of-a-kind build that will show off your skills and my skills working on triggers needs work.
On my bigger builds, 940v2 and 940c I cheat. I use the Timney triggers.
That brings up another question, can the Timney shoe be changed out for a flat trigger shoe?
by Hawkeye » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:08 am
I noticed that too. I have a bunch of Serpico shoes from years back that I plan to use. I did buy some new Serpico shoes for a future 19 build that look to be the same shoe. so now I'm good on aluminum shoes. I feel confident in working on triggers now. Thanks, guys, for all you help.
by RAMjetta » Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am
RAMjetta wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:49 amHawkeye wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:52 pmDoes a g-43 take the same shoe as the 17-19 ? Hawkeye the shoes should all be compatible CORRECTION! Hawkeye I know Ranger Proof shoes are compatible but I think some others like Tyrant Designs have a special shoe for the 43, 43x and 48 so make sure with the vendor you decide to go with.
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:18 pm
[/quote] Great results! Can't really tell from the picture but it looks like you could hit the tip of the seer with a little more polish and buffing. What connector are you using? Did you hit that yet? You should be able to get 4 - 4 1/2 lb. [/quote] They are a ghost and look to be a 4.5 I think they have a slight angle to them as compared to the OME connector I have but not as angled as the 3.5 I have.
by Hawkeye » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:15 pm
RAMjetta wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:40 pmAncient Order wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:27 pmRAMjetta wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:10 pm Whats wrong with that? Don't like em. I prefer the smooth triggers. So I ordered 2 more from Midway. If you don't plan to swap the shoes I may be interested in buying them from you (who much did you pay for them?). Let me know. I never use the OEM shoe. They are a ghost and look to be a 4.5 I think they have a slight angle to them as compared to the OME connector I have but not as angled as the 3.5 I have.
by Hawkeye » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:09 pm
OOH I reduce the travel in half and the reset in half too. Both could be made tighter but for a carry weapon I don't think it would be safe, so I'll wait and work on a range pistol to get one with a shorter travel and a tighter reset.
by Hawkeye » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:02 pm
Last night was a good one for my quest to build a decent trigger. I watched Johnny Glocks videos again and then went to work on travel and reset. First, I used a chrome polish just to add to the shine on parts I already worked on then I grabbed a housing that already had a set screw install for reset. Then I added a 1/16th roll pin that Jonny Glock use to reduce travel.
Adding the 1/16th roll pin was easier than I thought, I did it all with a pin vise. I did it a little different then Jonny Glock, I use a small bit first to dill a guide hole for the 1/16th bit. This way I can be sure I get the hole straight.
Now the trigger safety didn't work at all so I trimmed it like the Jonny Glock video except my shoe is aluminum but it was easy to take out the safety because it had a set screw, I had to work off metal slowly with a file and then go over it with a stone, then polish. It took three try's before I removed just enough off the safety to get it to work smooth and works every time.
I did the beat on the bench test then a drop on the grip test several time without a malfunction.
Now I can say I can tweak triggers
I have a few more G-43s to do some trigger work on and now I feel comfortable enough to tweak them.
I like to get my pistols functioning before I do any mods and paint, this is the reason for working on this ss80.
It's been my test pistol for all the mods, stippling, and different painting techniques but now my plan is to use this parts build as guide for those that would like a step by step custom work that I do, so in the future look for a post on my summer project that I will post step by step as I do them and answer any question that may come up along with why I do the steps and techniques I use.
by Ancient Order » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:18 pm
RAMjetta wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:40 pmAncient Order wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:27 pmRAMjetta wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:10 pm Whats wrong with that? Don't like em. I prefer the smooth triggers. So I ordered 2 more from Midway. If you don't plan to swap the shoes I may be interested in buying them from you (who much did you pay for them?). Let me know. I never use the OEM shoe. I paid $13.99 ea for them at KM Tactical. But I was actually thinking of doing that and trying out 3 different trigger shoes. I like the OEM smooth shoe, but if I can find one I like better...well, how many shoes will I have to replace?
by RAMjetta » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:43 pm
Whatcha think? Big difference huh? Hawkeye I'm making final edits (of course yall get an early look of whats to come). The vid should drop tomorrow. OEM to Empire Stiletto MK2 swap.
JettaMan OUT!
by RAMjetta » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:40 pm
Ancient Order wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:27 pmRAMjetta wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:10 pmAncient Order wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:22 pmJust got in 3 OEM trigger bars. Grooved shoes. Dammit. Whats wrong with that? Don't like em. I prefer the smooth triggers. So I ordered 2 more from Midway. If you don't plan to swap the shoes I may be interested in buying them from you (who much did you pay for them?). Let me know. I never use the OEM shoe.
JettaMan OUT!
by Ancient Order » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:33 pm Hawkeye wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:27 amThanks for your help, guys!! Here is what I learned so far with G-43 trigger pull. First polishing trigger bars: These are what I'm working with, parts form the G-43 parts box. I am all most sure they are Serpico bars and shoes bought years ago. I all so have some for a cheap LPK that have not been polished at all. I took as many of the burrs off as I could without changing specs and then polished to a mirror finish. I wanted to check pull out as I polished parts just to see how what I did effected the pull. Here is what I found with just polishing the trigger bar. I went from 6-61/2 lbs pull to A solid 5 lbs just polishing the bar. Great results! Can't really tell from the picture but it looks like you could hit the tip of the seer with a little more polish and buffing. What connector are you using? Did you hit that yet? You should be able to get 4 - 4 1/2 lb.
Top
by Ancient Order » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:27 pm RAMjetta wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:10 pmAncient Order wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:22 pmJust got in 3 OEM trigger bars. Grooved shoes. Dammit. Whats wrong with that? Don't like em. I prefer the smooth triggers. So I ordered 2 more from Midway.
by RAMjetta » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:57 am
Hawkeye it looks like the one on the right is probably OEM.
The numbers are exactly the same as on my new Gen 4 G19 bar.
Yesterday WE4PONXYZ confirmed the stamping.
JettaMan OUT!
by RAMjetta » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:49 am
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:52 pmDoes a g-43 take the same shoe as the 17-19 ? Hawkeye the shoes should all be compatible
JettaMan OUT!
by RAMjetta » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:47 am
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:27 amI went from 6-61/2 lbs pull to A solid 5 lbs just polishing the bar. Yep. You got all that gritty crap off the bar that comes from the factory (plus any microscopic burrs). That's why no matter how glossy a part looks, I always put a spit shine on it to ensure smooth action. I see you did some work to get rid of drag on the firing pin also. Cool. Now if you want to get it down to a solid 3.5 - 4lbs then go to work on your connector to get it down another lb or swap to a 3.5lb connector.
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:44 am
So then i moved on looking for drag on the striker, and it had some ruff milling marks, so I removed them and polished to a mirror finish.
I polished the top or bottom depending on how you look at it.
Don't take anything off the edge that the striker rides on or you could end up trashing out your bar. Another place that I saw ware was the rear locking block there the bar and connector meet in-between the rear rail.
Polished this up and hit the connector with some polish, put it all back together and finally got the pull I was looking for.
Now I need to study up on controlling travel and reset then I can say I have learned how to build a good trigger.
sorry for my bad pictures, one day I need to learn how to take picture
by Hawkeye » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:27 am
Thanks for your help, guys!! Here is what I learned so far with G-43 trigger pull. First polishing trigger bars: These are what I'm working with, parts form the G-43 parts box. I am all most sure they are Serpico bars and shoes bought years ago. I all so have some for a cheap LPK that have not been polished at all.
I took as many of the burrs off as I could without changing specs and then polished to a mirror finish.
I wanted to check pull out as I polished parts just to see how what I did effected the pull.
Here is what I found with just polishing the trigger bar.
I went from 6-61/2 lbs pull to A solid 5 lbs just polishing the bar.
by RAMjetta » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:10 pm
Ancient Order wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:22 pmJust got in 3 OEM trigger bars. Grooved shoes. Dammit. Whats wrong with that?
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:52 pm
Does a g-43 take the same shoe as the 17-19 ?
by Ancient Order » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:22 pm
Just got in 3 OEM trigger bars. Grooved shoes. Dammit.
by RAMjetta » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:43 pm
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:34 pmDamn I retire and the honey-do list gets bigger. Dude it never ends. Lol BTW hopefully I'll drop the trigger shoe vid tomorrow. I've already started editing.
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:34 pm
I'm working on all the triggers from my first builds years ago. YES they are G-43s. Most of my 17 and 19s have Timney triggers. Its been so long-ago I don't even no where I bought them. My plan was to get these triggers right, then work on a 19 that needs some love. I got the trigger bars mirror slick. Tonight I hope to get back to working on the rest that need polishing if the wife will let me. Damn I retire and the honey-do list gets bigger.
by Ancient Order » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:50 pm
Unbelievable. Now I know why MGB was so down on Glock parts manufacturing.
by RAMjetta » Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:42 pm
Yes...well sort of. Hawkeye post a good one of yours. Looks like that may be stamping the new ones according to WE4PONXYZ's comment above.
JettaMan OUT!
by Ancient Order » Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:23 pm
RAMjetta wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:49 amDamn! None of the vendors I trust have pics where you can fully see the cruxifom but the pics I can almost see they look blank. Proceed as Ancient Order suggests. Side note: OUT of all the trigger bars I have in inventory I just found an "OEM" Trigger bar with "3600-1" stamped on it. I have no idea where it came from and I can't find any bars with that part number. Looks like someone "slipped me a mickey". UGH! Is it stamped on the top like Hawkeye's?
by WE4PONXYZ » Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:28 am
Newest Gen 4 factory Glock trigger bar Smooth Trigger Marked - 3600-1 Models Fit: Glock G17 Gen4 Glock G22 Gen4 Glock G31 Gen4 Glock G34 Gen4 Glock G35 Gen4 Glock G37 Gen3 / Gen4
by RAMjetta » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:49 am
Damn! None of the vendors I trust have pics where you can fully see the cruxifom but the pics I can almost see they look blank. Proceed as Ancient Order suggests. Side note: OUT of all the trigger bars I have in inventory I just found an "OEM" Trigger bar with "3600-1" stamped on it. I have no idea where it came from and I can't find any bars with that part number. Looks like someone "slipped me a mickey". UGH!
JettaMan OUT!
by RAMjetta » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:40 am
Ancient Order wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:43 pmThat stamping on the top of the cruciform is no bueno. That's one of the areas that should have a smooth mirror finish. No offense, but I'd trash that trigger bar. The OEM trigger bar has a small "dot" punched into the center of the cruciform, but it doesn't come into play with the firing pin. Usually. Hey before you trash that trigger bar, that looks like it may be a G43/G48 bar. It probably is an aftermarketknockoff but they may have been stamped on the cruxiform. Give me a minute to check with a couple of vendors.
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:18 pm
Thank I got some work to do. I've watched the Johnny Glock videos twice and plan on watching them again before I start doing some fine tuning. I have run into some really out of specs safety plunger and yes most of them still had a lot of milling marks. Now I have a supply of Rook smooth operator safety plungers that look really good. I ordered some OME trigger bars and connectors (i all read have some, but you can never have to many spare parts). I'm going to learn how to build triggers, it has been something I have wanted to do for a while now but never took the time, so now that I am between full builds its time to learn the tweaking stuff.
by Ancient Order » Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:54 pm Hawkeye wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:26 pmAncient Order wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:43 pmThat stamping on the top of the cruciform is no bueno. That's one of the areas that should have a smooth mirror finish. No offense, but I'd trash that trigger bar. The OEM trigger bar has a small "dot" punched into the center of the cruciform, but it doesn't come into play with the firing pin. Usually. Ok thanks, I'll get another trigger bar to start with. I have boxes of part and thought I would try and get part that I have to work' Did I over polish this trigger bar? Nope. Great polish. Good practice A few areas I pay attention to on the trigger bar: 1. The top edge of the shark fin. I try not to sand it down changing the shape, but I lightly sand (600 to 2500 grit) to remove all tooling marks then mirror polish. 2. Same with the seer edge that catches the striker lug. Be very careful not to change the angle of the edge, but it's usually not very smooth. Just a couple swipes using 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 grit, then polish. 3. I "break" the top inside edge of the birds beak. The edge that comes in contact with the connector. Just a couple swipes to remove the sharp corner and smooth it out so it resets very smoothly. You'll also want to smooth out the edges of the connector that the birds beak rides on. That small inside corner at the top of the connector is a real bugger, but I have some very light jewelers files that can get in there and clean it up. 4. Highly polish the inside, outside, and top of the birds beak. Also super polish the inside of the rear rail that comes in contact with the birds beak. After you smooth this out, you should really be able to feel how smooth the interaction is. There should be no bumps, snags, or gritty feeling in the trigger action. 5. I've yet to see a safety plunger that didn't have tooling marks. I make these go away. Usually polishing with the Dialux compound will remove these, but sometimes I resort to a little sanding, then polish. You can play around with the top "corners" on the plunger if you want. I've seen plungers marked OEM that are different. Some are smooth and rounded and others have the angled top. Don't know yet which is better. Oh, and make sure the safety plunger spring is fully seated (locked in) and straight. And yeah, I polish that spring too - being highly vigilant so I can track it down when it goes flying. On the slide, make sure to clean out the hole for the safety plunger. They're always dirty. Just a few q-tips should do it. Also, I've seen 2 different slides that had some kind of burr inside the hole for the ejector plunger. Found it by accident. I've been able to remove it just by running the wooden side of a q-tip down the hole to knock it loose, then blow out the hole really good. Same with the striker hole - clean it out really well. On the striker, I concentrate on 3 areas - the face of the striker lug that comes in contact with the seer. Every one I've seen requires sanding of the face to remove tooling marks. Watch how Johnny Glocks does it, and be careful not to round it off. Next is the top rounded edge of the lug. I don't sand this because it's almost impossible to maintain the original shape, so I just polish it until they're gone (Dialux). Finally, I do the ledges that the safety plunger rides on. It takes some serious fine motor skills to get these, but a new, pointy hard polisher with Dialux gets in there.
by Hawkeye » Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:00 pm
ordered some thanks
by RAMjetta » Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:18 am
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:26 pmDid I over polish this trigger bar? No such thing sir. Go for the mirror shine and no less. And yes please get OEM bars. I just copped 2 from MidwayUSA and they're still in stock. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100427475?pid=535394
ALSO, I got my new trigger shoe from Empire last week so I'll film the trigger shoe swap for you today.
JettaMan OUT!
by Hawkeye » Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:25 pm
Ancient Order wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:43 pmThat stamping on the top of the cruciform is no bueno. That's one of the areas that should have a smooth mirror finish. No offense, but I'd trash that trigger bar. The OEM trigger bar has a small "dot" punched into the center of the cruciform, but it doesn't come into play with the firing pin. Usually. My brain is in overload form watching Johnny Glock videos. I have a lot more problems with some of my trigger then just the trigger bars so, far now I will watch the videos again and see what parts I can savage and start over with a more informed game plan. Thanks for the help.
by Hawkeye » Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:26 pm Ancient Order wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:43 pmThat stamping on the top of the cruciform is no bueno. That's one of the areas that should have a smooth mirror finish. No offense, but I'd trash that trigger bar. The OEM trigger bar has a small "dot" punched into the center of the cruciform, but it doesn't come into play with the firing pin. Usually. Ok thanks, I'll get another trigger bar to start with. I have boxes of part and thought I would try and get part that I have to work' Did I over polish this trigger bar?
Top
by Ancient Order » Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:43 pm
That stamping on the top of the cruciform is no bueno. That's one of the areas that should have a smooth mirror finish. No offense, but I'd trash that trigger bar. The OEM trigger bar has a small "dot" punched into the center of the cruciform, but it doesn't come into play with the firing pin. Usually.